The Mountains & Waters Discourse (Sansui Kyo)

The Sansui Kyo, sometimes referred to as the Mountains and Waters Sutra is a short essay by the 13th century Zen Master Eihei Dogen (1200-1253) that discusses the idea that mountains and waters are sutra (discourse of the Buddha) in and of themselves. The essay is part of the Shobogenzo or Treasury of the True Dharma Eye, which contains many of Dogen’s essays. The Kaz Tanahashi translation is provided below, but I have also included a link to a PDF comparison of his translation with those of Karl Bielefeldt and Hobai Pekarik FYI. There are others you can find on the internet.

“Before one studies Zen, mountains are mountains and waters are waters; after a first glimpse into the truth of Zen, mountains are no longer mountains and waters are no longer waters; after enlightenment, mountains are once again mountains and waters once again waters.”

This is the quote or a variation of it are often associated with the Sansui Kyo. Although it is usually associated with the practice of Zazen or meditation in the Zen or Chan traditions, it is also expressed as a form of Vipashyana/Vipassana or the process or experiences you go through when deeply practicing these forms of meditation. Since the essay or discourse was mentioned in our recent class on “The Ten Illusory Things,” I am including a copy for your information and study.

“Mountains and Waters Discourse (1)”

(Sansui Kyo)

By Zen Master Dogen

Translated by Kazuaki Tanahashi

1
Mountains and waters right now are the actualization of the ancient Buddha way. Each,
abiding in its phenomenal expression, realizes completeness. Because mountains and
waters have been active since before the Empty Eon, they are alive at this moment.
Because they have been the self since before form arose they are emancipation
realization.
2
Because mountains are high and broad, the way of riding the clouds is always reached in
the mountains; the inconceivable power of soaring in the wind comes freely from the
mountains. (2)
3
Priest Daokai of Mt. Furong said to the assembly, “The green mountains are always
walking; a stone woman gives birth to a child at night.” (3) Mountains do not lack the
qualities of mountains. Therefore they always abide in ease and always walk. You should
examine in detail this quality of the mountains walking. Mountains’ walking is just like
human walking. (4) Accordingly, do not doubt mountains’ walking even though it does
not look the same as human walking. The Buddha ancestors’ words point to walking. This
is fundamental understanding. You should penetrate these words.
4
Because green mountains walk, they are permanent. (5) Although they walk more swiftly
than the wind, someone in the mountains does not realize or understand it. “In the
mountains” means the blossoming of the entire world. People outside the mountains do
not realize or understand the mountains walking. Those without eyes to see mountains
cannot realize, understand, see, or hear this as it is. If you doubt mountains’ walking, you
do not know your own walking; it is not that you do not walk, but that you do not know
or understand your own walking. Since you do not know your walking, you should fully
know the green mountains’ walking. Green mountains are neither sentient nor insentient.
You are neither sentient nor insentient. (6) At this moment, you cannot doubt the green
mountains’ walking.
5
You should study the green mountains, using numerous worlds as your standard. You
should clearly examine the green mountains’ walking and your own walking. You should
also examine walking backward and backward walking and investigate the fact that
walking forward and backward has never stopped since the very moment before form
arose, since the time of the King of the Empty Eon.
6
Green mountains master walking and eastern mountains master traveling on water. (7)
Accordingly, these activities are a mountain’s practice. Keep its own form, without
changing body and mind, a mountain always practices in every place. Don’t slander by
saying that a green mountain cannot walk and an eastern mountains cannot travel on
water. When your understanding is shallow, you doubt the phrase, “Green mountains are
walking.” When your learning is immature, you are shocked by the words “flowing
mountains.” Without full understanding even the words “flowing water,” you drown in
small views and narrow understanding. Yet the characteristics of mountains manifest
their form (8) and life-force. (9) There is walking, there is flowing, and there is a moment
when a mountain gives birth to a mountains child. Because mountains are Buddha
ancestors, Buddha ancestors appear in this way. (9) Even if you see mountains as grass,
trees, earth, rocks, or walls, do not take this seriously or worry about it; it is not complete
realization. Even if there is a moment when you view mountains as the seven treasures
shining, this is not the true source. Even if you understand mountains as the realm where
all Buddhas practice, this understanding is not something to be attached to. Even if you
have the highest understanding of mountains as all Buddhas’ inconceivable qualities, the
truth is not only this. These are conditioned views. This is not the understanding of the
Buddha ancestors, but just looking through a bamboo tube at the corner of the sky.
Turning an object and turning the mind (10) is rejected by the great sage. Explaining the
mind and explaining true nature (11) is not agreeable to Buddha ancestors. Seeing into
mind and seeing into true nature (12) is the activity of people outside the way. Set words
and phrases are not the words of liberation. There is something free from all of these
understandings: “Green mountains are always walking,” and “Eastern mountains travel
on water.” You should study this in detail.
7
“A stone woman gives birth to a child at night” means that the moment when a barren
woman gives birth to a child is called “night.” There are male stones, female stones, and
nonmale, nonfemale stones. (13) They are placed in the sky and in the earth and are
called heavenly stones and earthly stones. These are explained in the ordinary world, but
not many people actually know about it. You should understand the meaning of giving
birth to a child. At the moment of giving birth to a child, is the mother separate from the
child? You should study not only that you become a mother when your child is born, but
also that you become a child. (14) This is the actualization of giving birth in practicerealization. You should study and investigate this thoroughly.
8
Great Master Kuangzhen of Yunmen said, “Eastern mountains travel on water.” (15) The
reason these words were brought forth is that all mountains are eastern mountains, and all
eastern mountains travel on water. Because of this, Nine Mountains, Mt. Sumeru, and
other mountains appear and have practice realization. These are called “eastern
mountains.” But could Yunmen penetrate the skin, flesh, bones, and marrow of the
eastern mountains and their vital
practice-realization?
9
Now in Great Song China there are careless fellows who form groups; they cannot be set
straight by the few true masters. They say that the statement, “The eastern mountains
travel on water,” or Nanquan’s story of a sickle, is illogical; what they mean is that any
words having to do with logical thought are not Buddha ancestors’ Zen stories, and that
only illogical stories are Buddha ancestors’ expressions. In this way they consider
Huangbo’s staff and Linji’s shout as being beyond logic and unconcerned with thought;
they regard these as great enlightenments that precede the arising of form. “Ancient
masters used expedient phrases, which are beyond understanding, to slash entangled
vines.”: People who say this have never seen a true master and they have no eye of
understanding. They are immature, foolish fellows not even worth discussing. In China
these last two or three hundred years, there have been many groups of bald-headed
rascals. What a pity! The great road of Buddha ancestors is crumbling. People who hold
this view are not even as good as listeners of the Small Vehicles and are more foolish
than those outside the way. They are neither lay people nor monks, neither human
nor heavenly beings. They are more stupid than animals who learn the Buddha way. The
illogical stories mentioned by you bald-headed fellows are only illogical for you, not for
Buddha ancestors. Even though you do not understand, you should not neglect studying
the Buddha ancestors’ path of understanding. Even if it is beyond understanding in the
end, your present understanding is off the mark. I have personally seen and heard many
people like this in Song China. How sad that they do not know about the phrases of
logical thought, or penetrating logical thought in the phrases and stories! When I laughed
at them in China, they had no response and remained silent. Their idea about illogical
words is only a distorted view. Even if there is no teacher to show you the original truth,
your belief in spontaneous enlightenment is heretical.
10
You should know that “eastern mountains traveling on water” is the bones and marrow of
the Buddha ancestors. All waters appear at the foot of the eastern mountains.
Accordingly, all mountains ride on clouds and walk in the sky. Above all waters are all
mountains. Walking beyond and walking within are both done on water. All mountains
walk with their toes on all waters and splash there. Thus in walking there are seven paths
vertical and eight paths horizontal. This is practice-realization.
11
Water is neither strong nor weak, neither wet nor dry, neither moving no still, neither
cold nor hot, neither existent nor non-existent, neither deluded nor enlightened. When
water solidifies, it is harder than a diamond. Who can crack it? When water melts, it is
gentler than milk. Who can destroy it? Do not doubt that these are the characteristics
water manifests. You should reflect on the moment when you see the water of the ten
directions as the water of the ten directions. This is not just studying the moment when
human and heavenly beings see water; this is studying the moment when water sees
water. This is a complete understanding. You should go forward and backward and leap
beyond the vital path where other fathoms other.
12
All beings do not see mountains and waters in the same way. (16) Some beings see water
as a jeweled ornament, but they do not regard jeweled ornaments as water. What in the
human realm corresponds to their water? We only see their jeweled ornaments as water.
Some beings see water as wondrous blossoms, but they do not use blossoms as water.
Hungry ghosts see water as raging fire or pus and blood. Dragons see water as a palace or
a pavilion. Some beings see water as the seven treasures or a wish-granting jewel. Some
beings see water as a forest or a wall. Some see it as the Dharma nature of pure liberation,
the true human body, or as the form of body and essence of mind. Human beings see
water as water. Water is seen as dead or alive depending on causes and conditions. Thus
the views of all beings are not the same. You should question this matter now. Are there
many ways to see one thing, or is it a mistake to see many forms as one thing? You
should pursue this beyond the limit of pursuit. Accordingly, endeavors in practicerealization of the way are not limited to one or two kinds. The ultimate realm has one
thousand kinds and ten thousand ways. When we think about the meaning of this, it
seems that there is water for various beings but there is no original water-there is no
water common to all types of beings. But water for these various kinds of beings does not
depend on mind or body, does not arise from actions, does not depend on self or other.
Water’s freedom depends only on water. Therefore, water is not just earth, water, fire,
wind, space, or consciousness. Water is not blue, yellow, red, white, or black. Water is
not forms, sounds, smells, tastes, touchables, or mind-objects. But water as earth, water,
fire, wind, and space realizes itself. For this reason, it is difficult to say who is creating
this land and palace right now or how such things are being created. To say that the world
is resting on the wheel of space or on the wheel of wind is not the truth of the self or the
truth of others. Such a statement is based only on a small view. People speak this way
because they think that it must be impossible to exist without having a place on which to
rest.
13
Buddha said, “All things are ultimately liberated. There is nowhere that they abide.” (17)
You should know that even though all things are liberated and not tied to anything, they
abide in their own phenomenal expression. However, when most human beings see water
they only see that it flows unceasingly. This is a limited human view; there are actually
many kinds of flowing. Water flows on the earth, in the sky, upward, and downward. It
can flow around a single curve or into bottomless abysses. When it rises it becomes
clouds. When it descends it forms abysses.
14
Wenzi said, “The path of water is such that when it rises to the sky, it becomes raindrops;
when it falls to the ground, it becomes rivers.” (18) Even a secular person can speak this
way. You who call yourselves descendants of Buddha ancestors should feel ashamed of
being more ignorant than an ordinary person. The path of water is not noticed by
water, but is realized by water. It is not unnoticed by water, but is realized by water.
“When it rises to the sky, it becomes single raindrops” means that water rises to the
heavens and skies everywhere and forms raindrops. Raindrops vary according to the
different worlds. To say that there are places water does not reach is the teaching of the
listeners of the Small Vehicle or the mistaken teaching of people outside the way. Water
exists inside fire and inside mind, thought, and ideas. Water also exists within the
wisdom of realizing Buddha nature. “When it falls to the ground, it becomes river” means
that when water reaches the ground it turns into rivers. The essence of rivers becomes
wise people. Now ordinary fools and mediocre people think that water is always in rivers
or oceans, but this not so. Rivers and oceans exist in water. Accordingly, even where
there is not a river or an ocean, there is water. It is just that when water falls down to the
ground, it manifests the characteristics of rivers and oceans. Also do not think that where
water forms rivers or oceans there is no world and there is no Buddha land. Even in a
drop of water innumerable Buddha lands appear. Therefore it is not a question of whether
there is only water in the Buddha land or a Buddha land in the water. The existence of
water is not concerned with past, future, present, or the phenomenal world. Yet water is
actualization of the fundamental point. Where Buddha ancestors reach, water never fails
to appear. Because of this, Buddha ancestors always take up water and make it their body
and mind, make it their thought.
15
In this way, the words “Water does not rise” are not found in scriptures inside or outside
of Buddhism. The path of water runs upward and downward and in all directions.
However, one Buddhist sutra does say, “Fire and air go upward, earth and water go
downward.” (19) This “upward” and “downward” require examination. You should
examine them from the Buddhist point of view. Although you use the word “downward”
to describe the direction of earth and water, earth and water do not actually go downward.
In the same way, the direction fire and air go is called “upward.” The Phenomenal world
does not actually exist in terms of up, down, or the cardinal directions. It is tentatively
designated according to the directions in which the four great elements, five great
elements, or six great elements go. The Heaven of No Thought should not be regarded as
upward nor the Avichi Hell as downward. The Avichi Hell is the entire phenomenal
world; the Heaven of No Thought is the entire phenomenal world.
16
Now when dragons and fish see water as a palace, it is just like human beings seeing a
palace. They do not think it flows. If an outsider tells them, “What you see as a palace is
running water,” the dragons and fish will be astonished, just as we are when we hear the
words, “Mountains flow.” Nevertheless, there maybe some dragons and fish who
understand that the columns and pillars of palaces and pavilions are flowing water. You
should reflect and consider the meaning of this. If you do not learn to be free from your
superficial views, you will not be free from the body and mind of an ordinary person.
Then you will not understand the land of Buddha ancestors, or even the land or the palace
of ordinary people. Now human beings well know as water what is in the ocean and what
is in the river, but they do not know what dragons and fish see as water and use as water.
Do not foolishly suppose that what we see as water is used as water by all other beings.
Do not foolishly suppose that what we see as water is used as water by all other beings.
You who study with Buddhas should not be limited to human views when you are
studying water. You should study how you view the water used by Buddha ancestors.
You should study whether there is water or no water in the house of Buddha ancestors.
17
Mountains have been the abode of great sages from the limitless past to the limitless
present. Wise people and sages all have mountains as their inner chamber, as their body
and mind. Because of wise people and sages, mountains appear. You may think that in
mountains many wise people and great sages are assembled. But after entering the
mountains, not a single person meets another. (20) There is just the activity of the
mountains. There is no trace of anyone having entered the mountains. When you see
mountains from the ordinary world, and when you meet mountains while in mountains,
the mountains’ head and eye are viewed quite differently. Your idea or view of mountains
not flowing is not the same as the view of dragons and fish. Human and heavenly beings
have attained a position concerning their own worlds which other beings either doubt or
do not doubt. You should not just remain bewildered and skeptical when you hear the
words, “Mountains flow”; but together with Buddha ancestors you should study these
words. When you take one view you see mountains flowing, and when you take another
view, mountains are not flowing. One time mountains are flowing, another time they are
not flowing. If you do not fully understand this, you do not understand the true Dharma
wheel of the Tathagata. AN ancient Buddha said, “If you do not wish to incur the cause
for Unceasing Hell, do not slander the true Dharma wheel of the Tathagata.” (21) You
should carve these words on your skin, flesh, bones, and marrow; on your body, mind,
and environs; on emptiness and on form. They are already carved on trees and rocks, on
fields and villages.
18
Although mountains belong to the nation, mountains belong to the people who love them.
When mountains love their master, such a virtuous sage or wise person enters the
mountains. Since mountains belong to the sages and wise people living there, trees and
rocks become abundant and birds and animals are inspired. This is so because the sages
and wise people extend their virtue. You should know it as a fact that mountains are fond
of wise people and sages. Many rulers have visited mountains to pay homage to wise
people or to ask for instruction from great sages. These have been important events in the
past and present. At such times these rulers treat the sages as teachers, disregarding the
protocol of the usual world. The imperial power has no authority over the wise people in
the mountains. Mountains are apart from the human world. At the time the Yellow
Emperor visited Mt. Kongdong to pay homage to Guangcheng, he walked on his knees,
touched his forehead to the ground, and asked for instruction. (22) When Shakyamuni
Buddha left his father’s palace and entered the mountains, his father the king did not
resent the mountains, nor was he suspicious of those who taught the prince in the
mountains. The twelve years of Shakyamuni Buddha’s practice of the way were mostly
spent in the mountains, and his attainment of the way occurred in the mountains. Thus
even his father, a wheel-turning king, did not wield authority over the mountains. You
should know that mountains are not the realm of human beings nor the realm of heavenly
beings. Do not view mountains from the scale of human thought. If you do not judge
mountains’ flowing by the human understanding of flowing, you will not doubt
mountains’ flowing and not-flowing.
19
On the other hand, from ancient times wise people and sages have often lived near water.
When they live near water they catch fish, catch human beings, and catch the way. For
long these have been genuine activities in water. Furthermore there is catching the self,
catching catching, being caught by catching, and being caught by the way. Priest
Decheng abruptly left Mt. Yao and lived on the river. (23) There he produced a
successor, the wise sage of the Huating. Is this not catching a fish, catching a person,
catching water, or catching the self? The disciple seeing Decheng is Decheng. Decheng
guiding his disciple is his disciple.
20
It is not only that there is water in the world, but there is a world in water. It is not just in
water. There is also a world of sentient beings in clouds. There is a world of sentient
beings in the air. There is a world of sentient beings in fire. There is a world of sentient
beings on earth. There is a world of sentient beings in the phenomenal world. There is a
world of sentient beings in a blade of grass. There is a world of sentient beings in one
staff. Wherever there is a world of sentient beings, there is a world of Buddha ancestors.
You should thoroughly examine the meaning of this.
21
Therefore water is the true dragon’s palace. It is not flowing downward. To consider
water as only flowing is to slander water with the word “flowing.” This would be the
same as insisting that water does not flow. Water is only the true thusness of water. Water
is water’s complete virtue; it is not flowing. When you investigate the flowing of a
handful of water and the not-flowing of it, full mastery of all things is immediately
present.
22
There are mountains hidden in treasures. There are mountains hidden in swamps. There
are mountains hidden in the sky. There are mountains hidden in mountains. There are
mountains hidden in hiddenness. This is complete understanding. An ancient Buddha
said, “Mountains are mountains, waters are waters.” These words do not mean mountains
are mountains; they mean mountains are mountains. Therefore investigate mountains
thoroughly. When you investigate mountains thoroughly, this is the work of the
mountains. Such mountains and waters of themselves become wise persons and sages.
Notes:

1. Mountains and waters are viewed as a sutra, or actual expression of the Buddha’s
   enlightenment.
2. “Riding the clouds” and “following the wind” represent the state of freedom in
   meditation.
3. Jiatai Record of the Universal Lamps, Chap 3
4. In the realm of nonduality, mountains and human beings are not separate.
5. In the realm of wholeness, one’s experience goes beyond the limited span of time.
6. Here again the experience in meditation of the wholeness of mountains and human
   beings is indicated.
7. From a nondualistic viewpoint, mountains have inconceivable function beyond
   stillness and motion.
8. Form: gyomo, literally forms and names.
9. Because the enlightenment is manifested in mountains, Buddha ancestors appear.
10. This expression usually means to be free from bondage of object and mind, but in this
    case the duality of object and mind where one is not completely free is suggested.
11. This means explaining mind and true nature separately. In other cases Dogen uses this
    phrase in the sense that explaining mind is itself an expression of Buddha nature.
12. The ultimate understanding of a Buddha mind (kenshin) and that of Buddha nature
    (kensho). But in this case Dogen criticizes viewing a Buddha mind or Buddha nature as
    fixed or substantial.
13. In China there are legends in which men became stons and stones became women
    (Record of Extraordinary Stories).
14. The teacher and his disciple are one upon transmitting Dharma.
15. Extensive Record of Yunment, Zen Master Kangzhen, chap. 1
16. Four views on water.
17. Great Treasure Heap Sutra, chap. 87
18. Suvarna Prabhasottama Sutra, cha. 1.
19. In the inner chamber of Buddha ancestors there is no self and others.
20. “Song of the realization of the way” by Yongjia Xuanjue.
21. Zhuangzi (Chuangtzu) chap. 4.
22. Chuanzi Decheng.
    At the hour of the Rat, eighteenth day, tenth month, first year of Ninji {1240}, this was
    taught to the assembly at Kannondori Kosho Horin Monastery.
    Translated by Arnold Kotler and Kazuaki Tanahashi

Comparison of Three Translations